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admin
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 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Actually Nozza,
There are a lot of Asians I know of who spent part of their secondary School years in their home country. These are British born and bred Asians, who spent the first 2 years of secondary school back in Pakistan or Bangladesh. Also, British born and bred Hong Kong Chinese kids being sent to Hong Kong for a year or 2. All this just for the kids to imbibe the culture properly. I have come across several such people. Being raised in their homelands, I think we understand each other's backgrounds better than our purely British raised counterparts. It's not easy to put it in words; this intagible quality, but believe Nozza, there's merit in being raised back home !!!
ciao
The Dreamer
4/13/04
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Well spoken!
Sola
4/13/04 |
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Umm, that's what I don't understand about sending the kids home. Is that a sign you are incapable as a parent to know your own culture? Umm, inquiring minds want to know!
Ha ha, as far as the "whup da azz" mentality, my father used to tell us that he would talk to us in a manner he knew we understood....if you know what I mean.
A lot of folks I know were beaten in front of their other classmates. I will never forget this guy in my kindergarten class. His mother actually came to the school and whupped him right in front of the other kids. Our teacher stated that if we laughed, we'd be next in line!!
LadyK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| LadyK wrote: | | Umm, that's what I don't understand about sending the kids home. Is that a sign you are incapable as a parent to know your own culture? Umm, inquiring minds want to know! |
Knowing is one thing. SEEING is another. The American system counters everything you try to pass on to them with something totally different. Some of those things make children feel life is all candy. Well, it can be bitter too. Showing him the other side gives him a chance to become broad-minded. My white direct report, a director, takes her kids to orphanages to help just to remind them they should appreciate whatever they have, no matter how little.
You're not saying they should not imbibe American ways...You're just saying know where you're from so that you can remain rooted. Conspicuous consumption is all over the place...Give them a chance to see people who are hungry and living happily, who don't have, yet are contented. You want them to know not all roads are paved, all fingers are not equal. You want them to SEE the daily struggle some have to go through to keep food on the table, see the madness that is the politicians in power, see the smile on the face of the grandmother in the village when you pay the occasional visit.
You want them to know there are places where people like him are the majority. You want him to know all the wars and hunger and AIDS reported in the western media is not all Nigeria and Africa are about. There is no way to explain that... You have to show him. He has to see it to believe it. You want him to know being poor should be a motivator, not an excuse to roam the night robbing and stealing and maiming. You want him to know anger should be turned into hunger...
Give him information and then let him decide how to live his life.
Sola
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Sola, we have the struggles here in America but they are a bit different. Aids is here, gang violence, homelessness, poverty, uneducated people and all of that. I have no problem with the child staying in Nigeria for a few months but to be gone for a period of years disturbs me.
LadyK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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The Dreamer, I don't disagree with you about the merits of being sent back home.
I know many people of Chinese, Pakistani and Indian descent whose only trips home were during the summer holidays. They've never lived there, but they are fluent in the language. One thing many have said about going home, is that it puts things (values and worldview) into perspective, and it gives them a greater sense of "belonging" and knowing where they come from. In addition, it gave them a greater appreciation of what they grew up with (and perhaps made them think twice about whingeing!). Many of those I've met who fall into this category tend to choose to live there for a time when they're older, usually as a GAP year or after university.
But I have only met one person of Nigerian parentage who fluently speaks Yoruba and, as far as I'm aware, has never lived in Nigeria. The only other person I know is of Nigerian/Caribbean parentage and went to live there briefly. It was interesting, people would talk about them and their mother and didn't know that the children understood everything they were saying! I'm sure there are other people, but I haven't met any them. Most of the people I know were born here, went home when they were young and basically grew up there or are recent migrants.
So I don't have any argument with wanting children to understand the culture and traditions of their parents, I don't even have any argument with sending them to live there for a period. I just do not agree that shipping them off home it is the ONLY way. That has a lot to do with the parents themselves, and the foundations need to be laid HERE and NOW rather than throwing them in at the deep end for an indefinite period.
Nozza
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| LadyK wrote: | | Sola, we have the struggles here in America but they are a bit different. Aids is here, gang violence, homelessness, poverty, uneducated people and all of that. I have no problem with the child staying in Nigeria for a few months but to be gone for a period of years disturbs me. |
Well, it may not be a period of years. Each family will decide how they want to approach it. You see, by virtue of the fact that they kid lives here, he will know about this place. And he will know very little about elsewhere. We don't have enough cultural products to keep his imagination fed like America. We don't have all the hip fashion designs, music, books, video games, etc, and even our movies are just developing. That child will be in a cultural limbo merely going from our otherworldly indoors into a totally absorbing American outdoors.
What some parents do is have the kid go to high school in Nigeria. Its like going to boarding school. It expands their horizon. There is the extended family system - sisters, brothers, parents, etc, to keep an eye on them. Hopefully, it will teach them independence and discipline. Of course it can go horribly wrong. Extended family members have been known to be terrible in some cases. But a child can go horribly wrong living right in your room, so? You just hope you have taught them enough to know right from wrong.
Now that is not to say they will be more respectful, going back to the topic. Respect for others starts from childhood and it starts with you teaching your children to respect themselves first. It starts with you treating them with respect, while being firm. Treating others with respect in their presence... It really boils down to what they see you doing. Respect has nothing to do with where they grow up. It has more to do with WHO brought them up and WHAT they were brought up doing and seeing.
Sola
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Sholly boy, ...well said !
Folks, pls read what I wrote on the mothertongue thread, this partly explains the attitudes of some Nigerian parents. My views at the end give a partial explanation of what is going on:
| The Dreamer wrote: | Here in London, you'll find that several Naija organisations run language schools for their kids. Although there are a large number of parents who DON'T want their wrds to know the mother tongue, not all parents suffer from this colonial-mentality. I expect that back in Naija, it is largely the Lagosians (mostly of Southern Nigerian ethnic extraction ie Yoruba, Igbo, Urhobo etc) that neglect their mothertongues.
Most of the rest of the country still utilise their mother tongues. Our northern Nigerian brethren always promote the Hausa language wherever they go !!! They don't seem to have an inferiority complex towards the Western world, unlike the Southerners.  Although you can argue that they fel inferior towards the Arabs, nevertheless, they have not abandoned their mother tongues in favour of Arabic, unlike the Southerners. :? |
@Nozza, I have met a few British raised Nigerians who have never visited Nigeria, but can speak Yoruba fairly fluently. But the majority cannot, which reflects the parents' attitudes. The new generation of Nigerian settlers have a very different mentality, from those who arrived here in the 1950s - 1980s era. There are a new generation of Nigerian children in the UK, London especially, who are growing up with full knowledge of their mothertongues. Most of this generation are not yet teenagers, but the foundations have been layed !
Previous generations tried to fit in with their Carribean peers (who mocked them as African Boubous ). They tended to distance themselves from everything Africa. Their names, language, culture, clothes etc. They were also among the first to mock Africans who came to the UK in the 1990s. However, now that the home raised Nigerians have proved themselves, this group of people now want to identify with the home raised. But since the language(s), culture(s) and social mores are strange to them, how can they fit in ?
ciao
The Dreamer
4/13/04 |
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: |
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The Dreamer, I don't disagree with you (my, aren't I doing well today?) Most of the more recent generations are very different to the previous emigres of the 50s and 60s.
I think the African and Caribbean thing back then was a bit more complex than you explained (there was lots of mudslinging and name calling from both sides!), there were a whole bunch of other factors in play than simply trying to "fit in".
Having said that, I also agree with what Sola has said regarding disciplining children. It is the foundation laid that is the important launchpad for everything else.
Are today's children more disrespectful? In many cases this is true. What is the solution? Well, a good dose of sending them back home seems to have worked for a number of them! I think we should band together and start our own "shipping children home" company....
Nozza
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Well Nozza girl,
I wasn't living in the UK during the era of African/Carribean mudslinging. However I must have caught the tail end of it ! You see, when I arrived here, there were still some foolish folks who made snide comments about Afrian languages, names, accents etc. I didn't have time for such idiocy, but when I felt like it, I gave back as good as I got!
I feel sorry for the generations that grew up here from the 1950s to the early 1990s. The only thing Nigerian about them are their names or surnames. A friend of mine calls them our lost brothers!
I think there are already a number of companies/initiatives that help place Naija kids from here into schools back home.
Sorry Nozza, we won't be making a killing as you thought
ciao
The Dreamer
4/13/04
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