NaijaPositive.com

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

I deliberately held back from saying anything on this topic because I assumed there will be people with much more experience of this kind of thing. It saddens me to hear that this kind of abuse is still happening.

CXSM, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the article about religious leaders and corruption. The sad thing is that not enough people are speaking out about it. I've made some very interesting discoveries over the past few years, one of them being that people will go to churches where they can hide, the bigger the better. And I'm not even talking about the questionable leadership in some. Until those of us who call ourselves Christians take a stand against these things, people will continue to bring the name of God into disrepute and we will be landed with the label "hypocrite". You will find that where you take a stand against the moral corruption and decadence taking place in some parts of the church, you are called self-righteous and people will target you in the most unpleasant way.

We could cite cases where here in the UK the Charity Commission is looking at the accounts of certain churches and people are using the feeble excuse "they (the Charity Commission which often means "white people") don't understand how black churches operate". At the best of time that's rubbish because lots of churches have had to comply with these regulations, so why should black churches be exempt from them? What about cases where churches are run as personal fiefdoms (can't call it anything else) and the members passively seem to view it as acceptable? Where members are intimidated into doing XYZ which isn't Scriptural, but no one bats an eyelid because the pastor says it, it must be from God. Truth be told, they are more like cults than Christian churches and I think we need to be very discerning as to whom we choose to ally ourselves with. By the way The Dreamer sir, a correction; the pastor in question who was in court a few months ago over allegations of rape/indecent assault whose church closed down isn't Jamaican.

We could probably all speak of cases where abuse has taken place in the name of God in churches. CXSM, I cry when I hear of situations like yours, because it makes me so angry that still nothing is being done about this kind of abuse and we let people get away with treating others badly (and that's an understatement). Your Russian friend isn't very wrong about judgement. The whole debacle of gay Bishops and paedophilia is just the tip of the iceberg.

There are many damaged people out there, but I believe that if enough people speak out collectively that something could happen. Now it's simply a case of "who is willing to tie the bell around the cat's neck"?

Nozza
1/3/04

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

The Dreamer sir, not wanting to say too much about the gentleman in question, he's actually from another Caribbean island. I used to know his sister very well. And I'm assuming we are referring to the same person (unless there's another case that has come up which I'm unaware of).

The term "yardie" is sometimes used to identify people who move in certain crowds, especially if they are from the Caribbean or a Caribbean background. Not all yardies in the broader sense (at least in the UK) are Jamaicans. He was a "rude bwoy" as far as I've been told, but yardie he ain't. He may have been born there (I can't say if he was or wasn't for sure) but his parents aren't Jamaicans.

Naming names would achieve no particular objective, and in any case my bank account isn't big enough to deal with the fallout But that really isn't the point here is it? I think we are all being very circumspect in dealing with the specifics, and for obvious reasons we have to be.

Recently I was told about a programme on one of the radio stations where someone was trying to defend one of the pastors/churches caught up in one of these allegations, which is where the quote about "how black churches operate" comes from. Thing is, it wasn't even a Christian station, I cringe at the thought of what the ordinary listener's opinion of THE CHURCH would have been after hearing it. Thing is, whatever happens in one part of The Church affects all of us, regardless of our denominational background or affiliation.

Nozza
2/1/04

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

Nozza,

Very well spoken and thanks for that, cos I have tended to distance myself from some of our more dubious brethren, though I am far from perfect myself !!! It just seems funny that these 'dodgy' characters are in prominent positions in a lot of churches. You'll find them in the Choir, as Ushers, protocol etc, and seem to do no wrong in church leaders' eyes. I must confess, I stopped playing any significant role in church years ago. As far as I am concerned, the dubious folks can take their status and everything else, and shove it where the sun don't shine.

All I care about is my personal relationship with Christ. At my age, I have better things to do than fight for cheap popularity in Church. As I have also followed a strict policy of chastity, I have no intention of getting involved with those of a more, shall we say "liberally permissive" Christian disposition. I have been labelled as "Saint, Taliban, Soldier" etc for my stance, which I just shrug off, water off a duck's back I suppose.

Though I do pray for the Church in general, I prefer to keep my own counsel and company. And I do tend to act as if our more "adventurous" brethren haven't got anything to do with me!!!

By the way, how did you "used to to know his sister very well"?

O'l boy, I dey fear you o! :shock: Abi na hin church you dey go bifor bifor ? Tufia! Mek I kuku pick race comot b/4 for hia!

ciao
The Dreamer
2/1/04

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

Now The Dreamer, I am very surprised at you. I mean, I would assume with the number of cronies and synchophants surrounding you that you would be used to taking loads of useless advice from them!

But I understand what you mean about distancing yourself from the more dubious brethren. Unfortunately at the best of times they're all over the place like a rash, so it's hard to avoid them. Our relationship with Christ is worked out in our relationship with each other, a hard thing to do when some people aren't even in a right relationship with Him and the relationship they want with you is questionable. At the end of the day you keep a few friends close, and the rest can...well, you expressed it more bluntly than I would!

Let's not even talk chastity. When people hear that someone has been born again for x number of years, the next question is usually "you mean in all that time you never...?" It's like people think you're unnatural or a freak. Or there must be something wrong with you. What is this obsession with sex that some people in church have? Aren't the teachings in Scripture pretty clear on this subject? I don't get it.

And what's with the other obsession, money? Money has now become the new god in some churches. I am tired of hearing people talk about their "prosperity" in Christ, which has nothing to do with spiritual blessings, but how to line their pockets, be it legally or illegally. I've had to ask, if it is God's intention for us to be "blessed" along purely physical lines, does that mean that poor people are cursed? So far no one has answered.

Many people have done church for so long, they know the language and how to use it, but it does not correspond with their day-to-day life. Christianity is a 24-7 thing, not something to turn on only for Sunday mornings or when you're in the presence of the pastor or a religious somebody. I guess some people have their reasons for going to church, and sadly, many of those reasons have little or nothing to do with spirituality. When you start to go against the flow of that kind of hypocrisy, you will be ostracised, ridiculed and bad mouthed. Some prefer lies rather than the truth and if you won't feed them what their itching ears want to hear, be guaranteed you will be out of favour.

BTW, I checked and can confirm that the pastor in question is definitely not from Jamaica.

The Dreamer, I wish I knew enough pidgin English to reply in kind about who I know (or knew). Me, I have to be careful o! But... your fear may not be unfounded.

Nozza
2/1/04

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

Hear Hear Nozza!!

I will have to set up a high powered Special Military Tribunal to probe the exact nature of your very deep "knowledge" of this pastor's sister!

Methinks you are being cagey, maybe because you "knew" her in the biblical sense that Adam "knew" Eve, and she begat Cain?

Point taken on the guy not being Jamaican. By the way, which Carribean Island does the main come from? Surely, this si not too much "confidential" info to reveal?

Stay Blessed
The Dreamer
2/2/04

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

The Dreamer,

I think you want to get me into trouble!!! :o :shock:

I say nothing. Let's just say the circles I used to be around years ago I am not anymore....

The sister and I went to the same church back then, that's how I came to know her (in a non-KJV sense!).

I guess asking for a lawyer before interrogation is out of the question then?

Methinks you are just afraid of another threat to your power base.

Nozza
2/2/04

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

Religious Leaders Encourage Corruption - Obasanjo

Reuben Yunana
12th Jan. 2004

As the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), launched its national campaign against corruption yesterday, President Olusegun Obasanjo advised Christian leaders to stop condoning corruption amongst their flock. The president, who spoke as the special guest of honour at the launching in Eagle Square, Abuja, cautioned Christian leaders not to accept donations from members who live above their legitimate means and advised them (leaders) not to make "unnecessary and unreasonable demands" of people in government.

He said they must, as religious leaders, be bold and speak up against corruption in all its ramifications. "Don't say because you want to build a new church and someone gives you one million naira and then you take it and you say: God bless your purse. God does not bless that kind of purse. Because you know in your heart of hearts that he could not have got that money through legitimate means.

"The man whom you know that his level of income cannot do what he is doing, you must know that there is something behind it. When you see corruption, as servants in the Lord's vineyard, you should say the truth against it," Obasanjo said.

The president pleaded with church leaders not to corrupt government officials through what he called unnecessary and unreasonable demands. "Of course, if you come to me and you say I should do something I know I cannot do it. But when you have ministers and the next thing you do is call a party and go to the minister to do those things that he should not do, it is corruption, when you use your God given authority to do what you should not do it is corruption," he said.

Stressing that no believer whatsoever should connive with corruption or condone it, Obasanjo recalled that God destroyed the world in the days of Prophet Noah because of the evil of corruption and defined corruption as not necessarily the use of money to get favours but also the use of positions to influence government decisions "for your children, brothers, friends or your village."

The event witnessed songs and a prayer session against corruption in the family, the church, the government, the security and armed forces, the civil society the educational system and the media. A sermon titled "Righteousness exalts a nation" was delivered by CAN President, Reverend Peter Akinola.

Someone's reaction

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

admin · Site Admin Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 5404

Folks,
Earlier on in this thread, I had mentioned the case of a UK based pastor of a black church facing allegations of indecent assault from some female former members of his church. The case had gone to court last year, but wut the jury failed to reach a conclusive verdict. Thereafter, the judge dismissed them and scheduled a retrial for this year, this retrial commenced a few weeks back. The prosecution case amounts to a charge of 12 counts of indecent assault by 4 different female former members. Counsel for the defence denies these charges naturally. Instead, they suggest that the women in question led the pastor into temptation. They even concede that the pastor may have taken advantage of the adulation heaped upon him by his female members, and may have succumbed in a moment of weakness! They state that he is not on trial for moral impropriety or marital infidelity therefore the jury should not be swayed by arguments other than this. Now the prosecution have brought forth allegations of witness intimidation on the part of the defence. It seems that some of those in the pastor's camp have tried blackmail and/or intimidation to manipulate some prosecution witnesses to either not give evidence, or to make their evidence favourable to the pastor's case! ( Not surprisingly, on both sides we can find some UK based Naijas ). The case is still continuing, and a verdict will soon be reached !!!

For now, I would urge folks to be cautious when they attend new churches. By all means respect your pastor, hoiwever don't turn yhim/her into a demi-god as too many black people would seem to do !!!

Brothers beware. Too many sisters are susceptible to the charms of charismatic pastors, fellowship leaders or departmental leaders. Without being insecure or paranoid, be on guard for threats to your relationship emanating from these quarters. Know that if this does happen to you, most of the church leadership and people will side with your lady and her lover, even though you have been wronged!!!

I'm speaking from personal experience guys

You wouldn't want to find out that your wife's new baby looks like pastor A, or brother B from the choir or brother C from the ushers!!!

When giving, ensure you give out of Love and worship to God, not out of guilt!!! Too many ministers make a habit of guilt-tripping people into giving!!!

Don't be suprised if brethren fail to expect rally round when going through life's storms, heck don't be surprised if they laugh, mock and scoff at you!!!

Ensure your circle of friends extend beyond your local church. While I won't advise against friendships in your church, make friends and acquaintances from other churches, and even among non-believers!!! I feel it is very unhealthy to draw your friends exclusively from your local church. In case you run up against the church leaders or one of their favourite lackeys, most of the congregation might turn against you including your erstwhile close friend !!!

Well people, that's all for now.

Stay blessed
The Dreamer
5/4/04